Town of Natick - Board of Selectmen Minutes

The meeting was called to order by the Chairman Charles M. Hughes at 7:00 p.m.

PRESENT: Charles M. Hughes, Paul R. McKinley, Jeffrey A. Stern, Jay H. Ball, John Ciccariello

ALSO PRESENT: Frederick C. Conley, Town Administrator; Donna Challis, Secretary;

WARRANTS: Payroll warrants were signed by the Board of Selectmen on October 22, 2001 in the amount of $1,313,829.46. This figure was included in total warrants signed by the Board of Selectmen of

ACCEPTANCE OF DONATION: NATICK SOCCER CLUB

John Horrigan, President of the Natick Soccer Club, and Reggie Lease, Treasurer presented the Board with a check in the amount of $15,000 for improvement to the Cole fields.

A motion was made by Mr. Ciccariello, seconded by Mr. Stern, to accept the donation from the Natick Soccer Club on behalf of the Town.

With corrections, Mr. Ciccariello moved to approve the minutes of the September 10, 2001 meeting. Seconded by Mr. Ball. The motion passed on a 3-0-2 vote. Mr. Hughes, Mr. Ball, Mr. Ciccariello voted in favor of the motion. Mr. McKinley and Mr. Stern abstained as they were not present at the meeting.

ANNOUNCE VACANCIES: RECREATION & PARKS ADVISORY COMMISSION

The Board announced two vacancies on the Recreation & Parks Advisory Commission to fill positions left by the resignation of Sherrie Brogan and the death of William Chase.

The Board requested posting of the vacancies for interviews on November 19, 2001.

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT TO FIRE CHIEF

Mr. Hughes summarized where the appointment process stood to replace the current Fire Chief who was due to retire the end of the calendar year. He noted that two deputies took and passed the exam. At the last meeting Mr. McKinley and Mr. Stern reported on some preliminary findings and tonight the Board will interview the two candidates. He suggested that at the close of those interviews that the Board close the interviews and table the choice until November 5th.

Mr. Hughes requested that each candidate make an opening statement, if he wished, and the interview would then be opened up to questions from members of the Board.

Deputy Chief Gene Sabourin

Deputy Chief Sabourin began by stating that he would like to be the new fire chief. He had 31 years in the department and served in various positions in the department and thought serving in these different positions had given him vast experience which he believed was necessary for this position (chief). Deputy Chief Sabourin reviewed his work history beginning with his service in the Navy as a communication specialist. In 1970 he was appointed as a firefighter, and joined the dive team and was a member and eventually dive team leader for 27 years. In 1977 he was promoted to Lieutenant in charge of an engine company and responsible for EMS and fire suppression. In 1983 he was promoted Captain and promoted to training officer. He also filled the role as administrative officer under Chief Morris with administrative duties including paying the bills and budget preparation, ordering equipment and supplies.

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT TO FIRE CHIEF (contd)

Deputy Sabourin continued that he was on the committee that planned a new fire station in the mid-80’s for Route 135. That station wasn’t built, but he gained a lot of good experience. Later in his term as administrative officer, he was assigned to fire prevention. He has worked with various other Town departments including finance, building, etc. and assisted former Boston Commissioner George Paul on the Firepro Study. He was also on the original computer committee that researched and bought the software used now for CAD and department records.

As Deputy Chief, Deputy Sabourin noted that he presently does all the vacation scheduling.

Deputy Sabourin acknowledged his wife Judy of 35 years and two daughters who were in the audience. On a personal note, Deputy Sabourin described himself as an avid outdoorsman who liked boating, fishing, hunting.

If he had one change to make in the present structure of the department, Mr. Ciccariello asked Deputy Sabourin what that change would be. Deputy Sabourin responded that he would like to see a foundation for a good training program. This was an 80+ man department without a formal training division which was something that was needed. They don’t follow regular procedures for training. It was not consistent and he would like to see the wonderful training center used more by brining in people from the fire academy.

Mr. Ball inquired as to Deputy Sabourin’s familiarity with Chapter 30B and asked if Deputy Sabourin knew the definition of a proprietary spec. Deputy Sabourin replied that it was something that can not be furnished by anyone other than one vendor.

Mr. Stern stated that he participated in fact finding and put in about 14 hours of interviews and questions and did not have any questions at this time.

Mr. McKinley asked that Deputy Sabourin expand on some of the other ideas he (Deputy Sabourin) mentioned to him. Deputy Sabourin responded that the first was training, the second technology. The present software was 10 years old and they were looking at several software questions now. He would like to see the command vehicles with onboard computers and see all the department’s records and reporting done electronically. There is a lot of software out there for Fire Departments and the department needs to get up to speed.

Looking over the horizon, Mr. McKinley noted that it was clear that the Town will have some financial hardship going forward and it may come that the Fire Department would be one department that will be asked to do belt tightening. Mr. McKinley asked Deputy Sabourin for his thoughts on how he would go about achieving that.

Deputy Sabourin responded that there were some things that can be done. The department spends some money in some areas that really wasn’t needed. There was some money to be saved in not filling officers positions when they weren’t needed. Now a captain might be called in to fill a position of firefighter so you wind up having senior captains working as a nozzleman on the back of the truck.

Mr. Ball asked Deputy Sabourin for his view of the 24-hour shift and if it was working well or not. Deputy Sabourin thought the rank and file liked it. He (Deputy Sabourin) didn’t particularly like it and some of the older guys weren’t 100% for it, but he knew the rank and file gave up a lot to get it. Sometimes it was hard to coordinate things because you don’t see them (firefighters) that often. It would be difficult to try and convince the union to go the other way. When asked by Mr. Ball if he thought the Town was better served by the 24 shift, Deputy Sabourin’s answer was, ‘no’.

Mr. Hughes noted that Deputy Sabourin’s primary responsibility was command of a shift, and Deputy Sabourin confirmed that as being correct. Mr. Hughes then asked if Deputy Sabourin had much time to participate in budget matters and if not would he (Deputy Sabourin) change that if he were chief. Deputy Sabourin wasn’t sure if Mr. Hughes meant one deputy or all, and Mr. Hughes responded that that was what he was asking Deputy Sabourin. Deputy Sabourin responded that in the current contract there was language that would allow a discussion

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT TO FIRE CHIEF (contd)

about changing the fifth deputy position to an assistant chief. It would not be hiring anybody new but changing what he does. It would not necessarily be the junior deputy as it was now, but the most senior deputy who wants the job. That deputy would be very much involved in the budget process and very much involved in what the chief was involved with. Right now there was no second in command, and he (Deputy Sabourin) thought a department their size had to have a second in command that was abreast of everything going on.

Asked if he would appoint an assistant chief, Deputy Sabourin responded that he would have to get approval from the Town and a contractual item would have to be talked about, but he would like to see the deputy chiefs more involved in the managerial matters. In follow-up Mr. Hughes asked if Deputy Sabourin meant more than just a shift commander, and Deputy Sabourin’s response was, ‘yes’.

Mr. Hughes noted that the Town had appropriated $700,000 to purchase a ladder truck. The specs were delayed so the new chief could participate in the specs. Mr. Hughes asked if Deputy Sabourin would go forward, make changes, or buy something else.

In response Deputy Sabourin responded that the vehicle the Chief was proposing was not what he (Deputy Sabourin) would buy. He looked at it today. It was a very nice vehicle and certain aspects were very nice, but being a quint which was a combination ladder and pumper, a lot of space was lost. It seemed like we were going to buy a fire truck and change the whole operation around this vehicle rather than buying a vehicle for the way the department operates. This new ladder has very little compartment space and a lot of rescue equipment would have to be carried on another vehicle. He would rather continue the operation the way it was than change the whole operation. There were only two men on a ladder and to operate this to full capacity, 5-6 men would be needed.

When asked what he envisioned purchasing, Deputy Sabourin replied that the ladder truck needed to be replaced. A comparable truck can be bought with some changes in the engine for $30,000 less and go to the straight ladder for $60,000 less. That will save almost $100,000 that could go toward buying a heavy rescue truck which cost about $200,000.

Noting that currently the Fire Department was operating a shared dispatch system with the Police Department, Mr. Hughes asked if Deputy Sabourin thought it was working and if not what would he change. Deputy Sabourin noted that it needed changes, but he didn’t see why it shouldn’t work. He didn’t think everything could be blamed on the dispatchers. He thought that when they (dispatchers) came in they weren’t given specific fire training. The fire training needs to be developed by the Fire Department and trained by fire personnel. To him it was a lack of knowledge that makes the difficulty. Some problems may have been design oriented the way it was set up and there was a need for some procedure changes. They live in a police environment and don’t understand the way fire operates. When dispatching for fire, 99% of the calls were emergency calls. Police receive more calls, but a lot weren’t emergency.

Mr. Hughes then asked Deputy Sabourin to describe his management style, and Deputy Sabourin responded that he considered himself as a situational manager. The chief wasn’t always in an office setting. When you were on the fire ground, you need to be in charge. When in the firehouse and talking about long-range planning and solving problems, you need to be a team manager and get people around you who were eager and participate. There were a lot of good people in the department with a lot of good ideas.

Mr. Ciccariello inquired as to Deputy Sabourin’s feeling about the overall condition of the other stations and what he would do to ensure maintenance was being done properly on all buildings. Deputy Sabourin replied that he thought that a pretty good program had been started of taking care of the outside of the buildings. South Natick has been resided, a new generator. Not much has been done inside and they needed to come up with a 2-3 year plan to get the stations back in good serviceable condition. He didn’t think there was anything structurally wrong with any of them.

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT TO FIRE CHIEF (contd)

For someone outside looking in, Mr. Hughes noted that it appears that the Fire Department has changed more from fire suppression to ambulance work, and what changes did Deputy Sabourin see happening for the service the department would provide the Town and if Deputy Sabourin saw those changes, how did he (Deputy Sabourin) think it would impact on personnel and funds.

Deputy Sabourin responded that many years ago he went to a seminar and the main topic was fire departments no longer being fire departments but emergency service organizations. At that time the change was EMS and departments that realized that EMS was the way of the future stayed alive and the ones that didn’t wound up with antiquated equipment and no funding. Since then some changes have been seen in responses to hazardous materials and now Anthrax calls. The Fire Department can be called upon to do any type of emergency services. Natick has an excellent dive team, water rescue, and hazmat. The calls for service were going up and the department has to equip itself with the knowledge and equipment to handle these. How to handle it would be the will of the people to understand the needs when the Chief comes before the Town and says there was a problem. The department doesn’t have a decision to make as to whether or not to go to the calls or not. The men should be trained now to do hazmat operations.

Deputy James Brien told the Board that he was a 1969 graduate of Natick High School, an Army veteran and joined the Fire Department in 1977 as a firefighter. In 1988 he was promoted to Lieutenant, to Captain in 1989 and in 1993 to Deputy Chief and since that time he has been a shift commander.

If he could make one change in the Natick Fire Department, Mr. Ciccariello asked Deputy Brien what that change would be. Deputy Brien’s response was, ‘installation of a training division’, adding that he thought that that was drastically needed. He would also like to see some job descriptions changed. There was an ALS Coordinator and he would like to see that changed to EMS Coordinator and that person could be more of an assistant chief.

Mr. Ball inquired as to how well Deputy Brien thought the 24-hour shift was working and how it serves Natick. Deputy Brien noted that sick leave has been down and he thought the 24-hour shift worked well and liked it. He saw no problem with it.

Mr. Ball then asked about Chapter 30B and how large a procurement a Town department may make without going out to bid. Deputy Brien’s response was, $1,000.

Mr. Stern had no questions.

Mr. McKinley recalled that in their conversations Deputy Brien had articulated several ideas. Training was one. If Deputy Brien were appointed Chief, Mr. McKinley asked what was the most significant thing he hoped to accomplish. Deputy Brien responded training and instill a better attitude. That’s been lacking. Team work. When asked if there was currently teamwork problem, Deputy Brien replied that he thought so.

Mr. McKinley then asked if the Town was forced to retrench financially over the next few years and Town departments were forced to cut, how Deputy Brien would foresee going about doing that when the demand for services appears to be increasing. Deputy Brien responded that fees could be increased and noted that he would hate to see the Town lose any stations. The response time was far too great to cut stations.

In response to Mr. Hughes’ request, Deputy Brien described his management style as participation. He noted that he would seek the wisdom of deputy chiefs and other people in the department and try to give positive feedback.

Noting that Deputy Brien was assigned as a shift commander and his primary duty was command of that shift, Mr. Hughes asked if Deputy Brien would change that at all with the deputy chiefs participating in the budget or other duties. Deputy Brien responded that he could see the administrative deputy assisting the chief. Asked if that was not happening now, Deputy Brien said he didn’t believe so.

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT TO FIRE CHIEF (contd)

Mr. Hughes then noted that the Town appropriated $700,000 to purchase a ladder truck. The specs and purchase were delayed so the new chief could assist the current chief in making that purchase. Mr. Hughes asked if Deputy Brien would make that purchase and if not what changes would he make.

Deputy Brien noted that there was probably a $50,000-60,000 price difference between the quint and the regular fire truck so there was a savings (with not purchasing a quint); however, you get water on the scene faster and it (quint) could be used as a replacement for a pumper. Deputy Brien noted that he hadn’t seen the specs. Right now a pumper has to supply a hose to a ladder and the quint has its own pumper so it can tie into a ladder. Mr. Hughes noted that it might not be necessary to send an extra piece of equipment (with the quint), and Deputy Brien confirmed that as being correct.

Mr. Hughes then noted that the dispatch was joint between police and fire and asked if in Deputy Brien’s opinion it was working and if not, what could be improved.

Deputy Brien responded that it (joint dispatch) wasn’t working, but it seemed to be getting better. He thought the dispatchers were getting better training, but as long as it was located where it was located, there may be some problem. In the Police Department they (dispatchers) get distracted with people asking for information and police officers walking through. When asked if he would change the way it was operating now, Deputy Brien stated that he would move the dispatchers so there was no distraction from the general public.

Continuing, Mr. Hughes noted that it seemed that the Fire Department role had changed over the years from primarily fire suppression to ambulance, and what changes did Deputy Brien see along those lines. Deputy Brien noted that the ambulance response had increased heavily and there had been an increase in hazmat response and natural disasters. He would like to see a rescue team established similar to the dive team. Mr. Hughes commented that that was different than

people who respond to an emergency in an ambulance, and Deputy Brien advised that that was in addition (to ambulance).

Mr. Ball inquired if Deputy Brien saw the need for a 3rd ambulance in the future and if so what would it be doing. Deputy Brien responded that he did not see the need for a third ambulance at this time, but he could it down the road if the runs increase dramatically.

A motion was made to table to November 5, 2001. Seconded by Mr. Ciccariello and unanimously voted.

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT AS NATICK’S REPRESENTATIVE TO KEEFE TECH SCHOOL COMMITTEE

Mr. Filledes summarized his background which included being a graduate of Northeastern and a Master’s degree from Framingham State and 40 years experience in the education field. Currently he was the Assistant Director of the Mass Secondary Schools Administration Association. He had served on the Natick School Committee for three years.

Mr. Filledes explained his philosophy of vocational education, noting that he was convinced that a comprehensive high school does not meet the needs of all the kids. A lot of kids do better in a vocational educational setting, and a lot of kids in vocational education go on to two and four year colleges.

Noting that the other candidate articulated the same kind of commitment to vocational training as a viable alternative, Mr. McKinley asked Mr. Filledes how badly he wanted this position. Mr. Filledes responded that he wanted it very badly.

Mr. Stern asked if Mr. Filledes could see himself trying to implement any changes to the curriculum to make it more academic. Mr. Filledes responded that Keefe Tech had a strong academic program, but he would like to see more honors and advanced placement courses.

To Mr. Stern’s inquiry as to the student capacity of Keefe and current enrollment, Mr. Filledes responded that the capacity was around 1,200

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT AS NATICK’S REPRESENTATIVE TO KEEFE TECH SCHOOL COMMITTEE

students and there were many seats still available. Natick usually sends 80 or so.

Mr. Ball asked if Mr. Filledes felt that a lot of kids going through Natick should be going to Keefe, and Mr. Filledes’ response was, ‘yes’. Mr. Filledes added that there were a lot of crowded classrooms (at Natick High School) and if you convince students that they can get an education that was more conducive to their liking, he thought it would draw a lot more to Keefe Tech.

Mr. Ciccariello commented that the perception was that someone going to vocational school wasn’t qualified to go to the regular high school. It was pure perception and what would Mr. Filledes do as a member of the School Committee to approach parents of teenagers who want a complete academic environment and convince them it is a viable alternative.

Mr. Filledes responded that when he was a principal, he would have a group meeting with parents and he would let them know there was an

alternative. He knew that a lot of kids could do a lot better learning a trade. The Keefe student can study automotive, culinary arts, electrical, many health careers, IS, plumbing, etc. and a lot of kids did very well in those careers.

When asked by Mr. Ball what was the nature of the kids who he would try to convince to go to Keefe as opposed to Natick High School, Mr. Filledes responded that a lot of kids like to work with their hands. At one time Natick High School had a tremendous industrial arts department, but because of 2-l/2 those programs had to be cut out. A lot of kids like that type of education which they will not get at a comprehensive high school. Targeting a population of kids who like to work with their hands, Mr. Ball questioned if that meant that somehow those kids were less suited for the education at Natick High School. Mr. Filledes responded not at all, and added that students who like to work with their hands to learn a trade cannot do that at a comprehensive high school today. Before 2-l/2 they could do that.

Asked what percentage of Keefe Tech students go on to post secondary education, Mr. Filledes advised that 25% of graduates last year went to junior and four year colleges. For Natick High School it was 91-92%. Asked if he had any idea about changing that number, Mr. Filledes stated that he would like to see it go higher. He thought it could go higher and he would like to see students at vocational schools have to take MCAS tests.

Edward Kerrissey told the Board that his background was in police work. He was a graduate from Natick High School with a BS degree from Northeastern and his interest in the Keefe Tech School Committee was more as a parent. He was the parent of a student who went to Keefe Tech and he saw his son grow in those four years.

Mr. Kerrissey explained that Keefe was 50/50. Once a student gets into a vocational program they do 50% in classroom and 50% in the field. The biggest problem was with the MCAS tests, and he believed the Keefe students should have to take them, but with an emphasis on the trade. Having gone through the process, Mr. Kerrissey believed he could help other parents and conceded that Keefe Tech was not for everyone.

Mr. McKinley followed-up on Mr. Kerrissey’s comment regarding the MCAS tests. He questioned if Mr. Kerrissey was proposing a modified MCAS test with a reduced emphasis on the academic and incorporating a vocational section. Mr. Kerrissey explained that he was not proposing a reduction for education, but equal marks for education and vocational.

Mr. Ciccariello asked Mr. Kerrissey how he would use 33 years in the Police Department to benefit teenagers who decide to go to Keefe Tech. Mr. Kerrissey responded that he could explain what he saw on a day-to-day basis and how Keefe Tech could help them. He could show them they weren’t failures and could go a different route.

Mr. Ball complimented Mr. Kerrissey on his very moving letter of interest. Obviously Mr. Kerrissey was a very enthusiastic booster of Keefe Tech and what it can offer. Mr. Ball asked if Mr. Kerrissey

INTERVIEWS FOR APPOINTMENT AS NATICK’S REPRESENTATIVE TO KEEFE TECH SCHOOL COMMITTEE (contd)

would be just as enthusiastic whether a member of the School Committee or not. Mr. Kerrissey responded that he has been there and it won’t change.

Mr. Stern noted that he was very troubled by the relatively low percentage of students that go on to secondary school. He asked how the kids who go on to college find themselves prepared and compete given that 50% of the classroom hours other kids have.

Mr. Kerrissey acknowledged that the kids struggle in some areas and it (50% class time) does leave them a little short in some areas, but they can do it. Mr. Kerrissey also noted that for the careers in a trade, they have to put in 2-3 years of apprenticeship in a row which was one reason they didn’t go on to college.

Mr. Hughes stated that he was impressed that Natick has two well qualified candidates and would be well served by either one.

By paper ballot, Tass Filledes was appointed as Natick’s representative to Keefe Tech. Mr. Filledes received three votes. Mr. Kerrissey received two. The vote was as follows:

Mr. Hughes voted for Mr. Kerrissey

Mr. McKinley voted for Mr. Filledes

Mr. Stern voted for Mr. Kerrissey

Mr. Ball voted for Mr. Filledes

Mr. Ciccariello voted for Mr. Filledes

HEALTH & RELATED SERVICES NEEDS ASSESSMENT

Mr. McKinley explained that he had asked that this be on the agenda because he had received calls from a few residents about the health and services needs survey sent out. The survey was identified as being completely confidential, but the callers said they received a follow-up letter saying their returned survey hadn’t been received. He felt that Gwen Kermode, Director of Human Services, needed to explain the definition of confidential. There were some intensely personal questions in the survey and while someone doesn’t have to answer them, if you did and then found out there were some people in the process who could connect the survey with your name, there was some cause for concern.

Martin Cohen, President of the MetroWest Community Healthcare Foundation, told the Board that it was his organization that provided funds to do the health needs assessment. Also in the audience was Mary Jane Norris Geary, vice-chair of the Natick Grants Panel. Mr. Cohen advised that in January 2000 the foundation received a request for $98,000 to conduct the health and human services need assessment for the Town of Natick. The survey would provide the Town with a comprehensive assessment of health needs and would assist the Police, Fire, Schools, Senior Center to meet the needs and would help community agencies meet the needs and provide data that could help with state, federal and private funding. The assessment would also help the Leonard Morse Grants Panel determine how best to use their grants.

This was the largest single grant given by the foundation, and Mr. Cohen said he was pleased that the Town hired J.S. Snow, Inc. He has been impressed with J.S. Snow’s work to date.

Mr. Cohen continued that many people think health care is about disease, but the reality is that it has more to do with life style. That was why those issues have been included in the survey. He noted that he was here tonight to express confidence that safeguards were in place to ensure confidentiality. A good response rate was needed, otherwise the investment will have been for naught. He hoped the Board would encourage, rather than discourage people to complete these surveys.

Mr. McKinley responded that he understood the importance of the survey. The question was what was the definition of confidential. People have received the survey under the auspices of it being completely confidential and then some people got a follow-up letter saying their survey hasn’t been filled out as yet. The people sitting out there with the survey needs to know the answer.

Gwen Kermode assured the Board that the survey was confidential. The Town, including herself, nor the steering committee have any idea who the survey was sent to unless someone calls and asks for assistance in filling it out. Some people have asked for help and those people were

HEALTH & RELATED SERVICES NEEDS ASSESSMENT (contd)

being helped by her office and that information was being kept absolutely confidential. The surveys are numbered and sent out based on a list of residents to 800 households. This list of residents is kept along with the number of their survey and it is listed in the computer when the survey comes back in. When it is pulled up on the computer, the names are blocked out. Only two people with the password can connect the name with the survey. Other than that, the people entering the data cannot connect the name. The names are on a separate computer so that they can send out reminder notices in order to maximize the returns, but the answers to the survey can’t be connected to the names.

Ms. Kermode continued that John Snow, Inc. does these surveys across the country and internationally and if they ever breech confidentiality, they would be liable and they would not still be in business. Without confidentiality a company dealing in research of HIV and pregnancy issues which are personal issues would not stay in business. People would not answer questions unless the answers were kept confidential and the Town would not have hired the company unless it (John Snow) had high standards and great recommendations. Town Counsel went through every word to assure confidentiality. There was only one person at JS, Inc. who can connect the names and the survey numbers and there was no reason for that person to do that and no reason to divulge.

Mr. Ball expressed the opinion that the operative word was trust. JSI says, Ms. Kermode says, Mr. Cohen says that people should trust JSI to keep the information which has been or about to be supplied confidential and defined that as a knowledge by two people. What distressed him and people to whom he had spoken was the distinction being made between confidential and anonymous. Everyone he spoke to and showed copies of the cover letter to couldn’t tell from the letter

that confidential didn’t mean anonymous. The distinction between confidential and anonymous was a fine one. He had two degrees from MIT and he did not know, and didn’t recall after leaving the meeting in which he reviewed all the questions, that had he received a survey that anyone could attach his response to his name. In general people do not

distinguish between confidentiality and anonymity and of everyone he spoke to, no one understood that distinction. Everyone felt they were being told it was anonymous.

Mr. Ball explained that his point was that Ms. Kermode says trust us, JSI does this all the time. However with that level of experience, he (Mr. Ball) didn’t see why JSI would not make it distinctly clear to ordinary folks. Some would not have returned their questionnaires had they known that anyone could identify their response. JSI could have, but did not make the distinction. His trust in JSI was limited because they were dealing with extremely sensitive questions to a public which trusts the Town, the Board of Selectmen and the hospital not to do them (people surveyed) any damage. Trust was the operative word and he thought the trust that must be put in a survey like this has been shaken severely. He didn’t know what to do other than to make the clear distinction between confidential and anonymous and assure people that the possibility of tying their responses to their names was limited to a few people for a short time and then gets dumped. If that effort wasn’t made, any future survey of this sort was unlikely to receive much support. A real effort needs to be made to assure people.

Ms. Kermode noted that the letter mentioned confidentiality a couple of times and they wanted to make sure that people knew the information would be kept absolutely confidential. It never said anonymous, but the information is kept absolutely confidential. The Town will never know who received the surveys and who returned them.

Mr. Ciccariello inquired as to why it was so important to have the names and addresses of individuals filling out the survey. Why just have them returned.

Ms. Kermode responded that the names and addresses were kept on a separate computer than the information. A reminder letter goes out to people reminding them to return their survey and then another letter with survey included goes out and finally a last reminder letter. That was done to maximize the return. The hope was for an 85% return. The larger number of returns the more accurate.

HEALTH & RELATED SERVICES NEEDS ASSESSMENT (contd)

When asked if she knew the return rate to date, Ms. Kermode advised that it was over 45%. The next mailing would probably go out next week with another follow-up letter in two weeks and a final date of return just before Thanksgiving.

Mr. McKinley commented that a large part of what he heard from Ms. Kermode was defensive rather than constructive. Regardless of anyone’s interpretation of confidential, perception was reality and a large number of people have concerns with the definition of confidentiality. If Ms. Kermode wanted to encourage or recover some of the credibility to ensure a higher rate of return on the survey, his suggestion would be that the next letter, and maybe the next two, go to everyone who got a survey and that the letter state in no uncertain terms that any link

between who has and who has not returned the survey has been destroyed. The fact that there were two separate computers was meaningless.

Ms. Kermode accepted Mr. McKinley’s recommendation as a good one, but she didn’t know if all 800 could be reached. Once the data was entered

on the computer, the name was deleted, but it could be done with all existing ones.

Mr. Stern inquired as to what JSI provided to reassure the Town that the paper copies have been destroyed and the ID linkage number was destroyed. Ms. Kermode replied that she would have to go back through the contract. That section was written by Town Counsel. Mr. Hughes requested that Ms. Kermode provide that information to the Board for the next meeting.

A member of the audience Joshua Ostroff told the Board that he did a lot of research projects and about 6-l/2 years ago one was with JSI. His household got a copy of the human needs survey and when he saw who was doing the fieldwork, he was reassured there would be no connection and two months hence anonymous and confidential would be the same thing. He felt that people who have not completed the survey could do so with assurance.

GOLF COURSE ADVISORY COMMITTEE: GOLF COURSE UPDATE

The Golf Course Advisory Committee was rescheduled for November 5th.

RENEWAL OF LIQUOR LICENSES 2002

Sergeant Robert Davis, Safety Officer for the Natick Police Department, reported that currently he was auditing three basic alcohol training policy seminars – TIPS, AIM and BAT. At the completion of that audit, he will forward findings to Chief Mannix and the Chief will submit a report and recommendation to the Board. Mr. Ball asked about Bar Code, and Sergeant Davis advised that he would look into it.

Mr. Hughes asked the other members of the Board if they preferred to wait on establishing a policy until Sergeant Davis was done with his audit. Mr. Ball noted that he did not want to wait. He pointed out that at the last meeting three issues were brought up with respect to the draft policy – inclusion of the possible use of an in-house trainer, TAM has become BAT, and eliminating the requirement to list an employee’s social security number. All three of those issues have been incorporated into the revised policy. The policy also asks for an affirmation that each employee was at least 21 years of age. Other than that what was before the Board was the same policy as the last time. He felt that all the AIM, TIPS and BAT programs were fairly widely accepted and he would suggest that the Board vote the policy and if there was something in Sergeant Davis’ recommendation that would lead the Board to change the policy, to do it at that time. He (Mr. Ball) would like to see this in place before voting on license renewal.

Mr. McKinley inquired as to the number of establishments that have had a chance to see the draft policy and were they aware that the Board was going to vote on it. Mr. Ball advised that he had not mailed copies to each licenseholder, but it has been pretty well covered (in the newspaper)

A motion was made by Mr. McKinley, seconded by Mr. Ciccariello, to close the public hearing. Unanimously voted.

In discussion of the policy, Mr. Hughes recalled that one of the concerns expressed by some licenseholders was the 30-day requirement.

RENEWAL OF LIQUOR LICENSES 2002 (contd)

In particular the request was with regard to part-time employees and would the Board accept 30 days for full-time and 60 days for part-time.

Mr. Ciccariello noted that the problem with the part-time was that a lot of the places use more part-time than full-time. Someone may be serving four nights a week, but they don’t work 40 hours.

Mr. McKinley noted that Elks Manager Paul Carew made the argument of an in-house trainer to address that. The vast majority of Mr. Carew’s employees were part-timers and although he (Mr. McKinley) was sympathetic to a licensee not wanting to send everyone off to a training program, if someone could be certified as a trainer, that person could do the training and could do it in 30 days.

Mr. Ciccariello moved to approval the alcohol policy on training requirements as written. Seconded by Mr. McKinley and unanimously voted. At a later point in the meeting, it was pointed out that the statute allows someone to serve and/or sell alcohol at the age of 18. Mr. Ball moved reconsideration of the policy. Seconded by Mr. Stern and unanimously voted. Mr. Ball then moved to amend Section E to make the age as 18. Seconded by Mr. Stern and unanimously voted.

PUBLIC HEARING: 2002 LIQUOR LICENSE FEES

Before the Board was a survey of liquor license fees of surrounding towns.

A motion was made by Mr. Ciccariello to adjust Natick’s liquor license fees as follows:

Restaurant with lounge - $2,300

Restaurant All alcoholic - $2,000

Restaurant beer & wine - $1,250

Package Store - $2,000

There was no second and thus no vote taken.

Ercole Ubaldino from Kentucky Spirits spoke in favor of trimming down the license fees in view of everything going on in the country now. Travel was down, the inns were empty, and with the economy going south, now was probably the wrong time for an increase.

Mr. Hughes inquired as to when the fees were last raised, and Ms. Challis advised that the last change was a few years ago and at that time the only adjustment made was the innholder.

Mr. Ball pointed out that the total fees suggested by Mr. Ciccariello would add $6,000 to the coffers, and he (Mr. Ball) didn’t see the point of increasing the fees unless the Board felt there was a gross inequity. Business isn’t any better now and unless the Town was

desperate for the $6,000, he (Mr. Ball) preferred to leave things as they were.

Mr. McKinley agreed with Mr. Ball and noted that Natick’s fees were equitable with the towns around us. At the last fee review, the Board was sensitive to the club rate because many of these clubs were

charitable and raising the club rate by $400 was taking away some of what would probably come back to the Town. He (Mr. McKinley) could not support the club rate proposed by Mr. Ciccariello and thought all the fees should be left alone for this year.

A motion was made by Mr. McKinley to close the public hearing. Seconded by Mr. Ball and unanimously voted.

Mr. McKinley then moved to reaffirm the current liquor license fees for 2002. Seconded by Mr. Ball and unanimously voted. The fees to be set as follows:

Innholders $3,850.00

Restaurant All Alcoholic 1,750.00

Restaurant With Lounge 2,300.00

Restaurant Beer & Wine 700.00

Package Store 1,750.00

Plus a $100.00 filing fee for new applications and a $50.00 filing fee for any change of condition (change in manager, stock pledge)

JFK TRANSPORTATION: TAXI LICENSE

Appearing before the Board were Sergeant Davis and the applicant Timothy Kelley of JFK Transportation.

Sergeant Davis explained that Mr. Kelley applied for two additional taxi licenses. The current taxi licenses were in the name of Mr. Kelley’s father under JFK Transportation d/b/a Colonial Cab, and Mr. Kelley would like to take two licenses for JFK Transportation. He was currently licensed in Framingham, and the cars were metered. He was requesting that the Board issue two licenses as JFK Transportation and the remainder would be held in abeyance until he decides to put more on the road.

Sergeant Davis continued that Colonial Cab was owned by Mr. Kelley’s father and he has moved to a livery company and out of the taxi field. Livery service does not pick up curbside, at a bus stop or train station. Livery service was currently unregulated in Natick and not subject to any rules or regulations. Drivers were not subject to regulation.

Mr. Hughes noted that Mr. Kelley had nothing to do with the 7 taxi licenses issued to Colonial Cab, and Mr. Kelley responded that the licenses were issued to JFK Transportation d/b/a Colonial Cab. He (Mr. Kelley) purchased JFK Transportation from his father and would like to operate two taxis and keep five licenses on the shelf.

Mr. McKinley questioned if Mr. Kelley was only running two cars, why did it matter that he hold onto five more. Mr. Kelley responded that he was hoping that his business would increase and if a competitor from

Framingham comes in, he hoped the Town would not issue any more licenses than the number already approved.

Mr. McKinley pointed out that the Board could change its mind and up the number of licenses. Mr. Kelley agreed. Mr. Stern noted that he was reluctant to participate in a scheme to freeze out competitors.

A motion was made by Mr. McKinley to transfer two licenses from Colonial Cab back to JFK Transportation. Seconded by Mr. Hughes. The motion passed on a 4-1-0 vote. Mr. Hughes, Mr. McKinley, Mr. Ball, Mr. Ciccariello voted in favor of the motion. Mr. Stern was opposed.

In speaking to the motion, Mr. Hughes noted that the company had been JFK Transportation, Inc. d/b/a Colonial Cab. Mr. Kelley responded that Colonial Cab was terminated and it was now JFK. Colonial Cab had been using JFK licenses. Mr. Hughes pointed out that Colonial Cab was not an, “Inc.” He (Mr. Hughes) didn’t see any reason not to do this but he was concerned that licenses have been issued that people were holding on to and not using and perhaps those licenses should be returned to the Town.

Mr. Hughes requested that Mr. Conley and Town Counsel look into some kind of livery service rules and regulations and come back to the Board.

Joshua Ostroff noted that both Needham and Sudbury have metal signs that says ‘Needham (Sudbury) Votes ----“, and that could be a way to increase awareness and turnout for Town elections.

Mr. Hughes asked that Mr. Conley check with the DPW on the possibility and cost of these signs, and to involve the Town Clerk in any recommendation.

Mr. Ostroff said he felt that the Town was not making use of the internet as much as it could to save money and make available service. He has started a rag tag bunch of rebels who were willing to give their service to independent groups and the Town.

Mr. Hughes suggested that Mr. Ostroff and Mr. Ball get together.

RENEWAL OF LIQUOR LICENSES 2002

Mr. Hughes pointed out that there was one liquor license listed as having overdue taxes and the Board could either approve condition upon

RENEWAL OF LIQUOR LICENSES 2002 (contd)

them being current as of November 30th or they could be sent a letter telling them their license renewal would be on the November 5th agenda.

A motion was made by Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mr. Ball, to renew all the licenses except for The Deli, Inc. d/b/a Joan & Ed’s Deli. Unanimously voted. The following licenses were renewed:

The Wine Network, Inc.

d/b/a Leary’s Fine Wines 6 Worcester Road

Powers Package Store, Inc. 4 South Avenue

Town Line Liquors, Inc. 160 East Central St.

Petur Enterprises, Inc. 7 Watson Street

D/b/a Natick Wine & Spirits

Middlesex Liquors 17 Washington St.

D/b/a Kentucky Spirits

Fannon’s Liquor Store 212 North Main St.

Westborough Beverage Corp. 1225 Worcester Rd.

RESTAURANT ALL ALCOHOL

Angelo & Garif, Inc. 25 Washington Ave.

D/b/a Agostino’s Restaurant

Ming House, Inc. 915 Worcester Rd.

Hong Kong Delight Corp 195 West Central St.

RPR Restaurant/ d/b/a Go Fish 1328 Worcester Road

Hiro, Inc. d/b/a Hiro Sushi 148 East Central St.

California Pizza Kitchen 1245 Worcester Rd.

JACE, Inc. d/b/a Equinox Grill 61 Worcester Rd.

Dah- Mee, Inc. 25 Washington St.

RESTAURANT ALL ALCOHOL WITH LOUNGE

Dimas, Inc. d/b/a Dolphin Seafood 12 Washington St.

d/b/a Vinny Testa’s Ristorante 801 Worcester Rd.

Legal Sea Food 1400 Worcester Rd.

Natick Lodge #1425 of the Benevolent & 95 Speen St.

Protetective Order of Elks

The Francesco DeSanctis Lodge #1411 37 Washington Ave

Veterans of Foreign Wars, Natick Post 1274 113 West Central St.

E.P.Clark Post #107, American Legion 13 West Central St.

Amvets Post 79 Off Superior Drive

Natick Hotel Associates d/b/a Holiday 1360 Worcester Rd.

N.H.Hotel Associates, Inc. & Owen 319 Speen St.

O’Leary’s, Inc. d/b/a Owen O’Leary’s